index #
coming up the drive, and I thought to myself, "Boy, how's he's failed." [laugh]. And,
and...
L. L. : So you knew him at the University?
M. C. : ...but when he cam in and sat down, he took a good look at me and he said, "Peg, you're a
handsome woman." And I said, and I thought to myself, "Using the word handsome on a
woman wasn't very good to begin with, and he was a principal with a masters degree."
[laugh]. But it was funny.
L. L. : How come he called you Peg?
M. C. : Oh that's what, uh, they, in school, they'd often call me that. So,an, uh,
L. L. : You knew him at the University?
M. C. : No, I'd met him, I met him at Bellingham.
L. L. : So years before.
M. C. : And he was just out of the Navy.
L, L. : um-huh
M. C. : And, you see, at that time, just being out of the Navy, he had money to buy things with
that, that college kids couldn't. So, you had, uh, a real date. Well, oh dear. That's,uh,
I've never talked about my love life to anybody, [laugh].
L. L. : Did you have any desire to date anyone, or were you happy being singly.
daughter 440 M. C. : Oh, I, I've been with, you know, groups of people, single men, and those that are married,
and those that are widowed. I don't know, but it's... No, no I've never, I knew when
Marilyn was born that this was my life duty.
religion/service 444 And I've done it the best I knew how. And I've always been close to the church, I'm,
I'm, now like yesterday was Tuesday, this seems like it's a month from now, but, anyway,
yesterday was Tuesday, and I went to my circle, with the lady that lives here, and she has a
car. And I took an apron, a cute little pink apron that I used as chairman of the rummage
sales that we used to have, to make money, we had rummage sales. And I had used that
apron for 20 years, and it was, uh, nylon. And it had big pockets in it. And I...
end Tape 7. side A
Tape?
side B
religion/service 012 M. C. : [discussing the apron] ...woman that does a great deal of work for the church...
L. L. : giving the apron to her
M. C. : ...and helping others, and I was passing it on to her because I wanted to know that it went
to someone that could make good use of it. And I took that little apron and gave it to her.
It, it's, it's really wonderful when you stop to think. Now I, I, I always said to anyone that,
uh, if they asked me what church I belonged to, I told them where, or how long I'd
belonged to Mt. Baker. I would tell them almost 50 years. And while I was at the church,
I looked it up, and it's ready 52 years. You'd say, that's what guessing does for you,but
you get close enough, you get the idea anyway. I don't want, I don't really like to talk
about myself. I've told you much more than I've ever told anyone.
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marriage025
old age
quote
death
027
030
031
daughter/
health/handicap 043
AKT
public
speaking
AKT
L. L. : Well, I appreciate it. [Libby and Margaret laugh].
M.C. : But I know you have an assignment, and I wish I were younger s,so that I could see you
get your doctorate, or get anything else, and I hope you take a second look at marriage.
No matter what comes your way, you can make the best of it.
L. L. : Well, thank you. Urn, how do you feel about getting older?
M. C. : Oh, it's wonderful because life takes its course. It's like a friend of mine said, "Who said
this was the golden age? I think it's pretty brassy." [laugh].
Now if you can, if you can take life in its threshold, now there, the saddest part is
something that's happened twice this week. Two of the ladies here have lost their only
daughters in, with cancer this week. And the daughters were, one was 50 and one was 60-
something. And they both died, one of colon cancer and one with breast cancer. And
they've been just, you know, it's hard on a parent to lose a daughter, very hard. And I feel
sorry for them, very sorry. But they'll over come it and know that they're better off.
They've gone home. And home is always a good place to be.
L. L. : How do you feel about Marilyn getting sick, is it hard for you?
M. C. : About Marilyn?
L. L. : um-huh
M. C. : When she's sick, it's devastating. That's the hardest break I have. But I do know that,
how, if, if she goes before I do it would be a blessing because there are so many things that
she needs. Now my daughter-in-law, Marilyn, and she's so wonderful, you'll know that
when you meet her, uh, she has, she took her to the doctor's yesterday. Now Marilyn has
had to wear, to support the veins in her legs, not just because of veins, it's because,
because of the liver problem she has, she wears, uh, uh, surgical hose, and they cost $80 a
pair. And Marilyn had a hole in one. And when Mar, when Maril, oh, Don's Marilyn, took
her to the doctor's yesterday, the doctor said, sh, it would be better for her if she had a new
pair because she had a little pair in this one, the one she's wearing. And that hole releases
the elasticity in the sock, stocking. So Marilyn said when she goes downtown next time,
she'd go up to the, uh, medical building where she gets these, and, uh, have another pair
made for Marilyn her size. And that's good. But I leave money with them, uh, to provide
for what she needs over and above so they can do it. Well, next. [laugh].
066 L. L. : I was looking at one of the books that you gave me, and it was a research project, uh, "The
Commitment to Education: Capable Youth."
M. C. : The, uh research project from Delta Kappa Gamma?
L. L. : Right
M. C. : Yes
L. L. : How did you get involved with that?
070 M. C. : Because I am, uh, had been, uh, a member of Delta Kappa Gamma, now, next Saturday, is,
uh, they're having a meeting. And I'm going to that meeting, and they've asked me to give
a tribute to one of the ladies that past away here last month. Which I will do.
L. L. : What...
075 M. C. : I'm not writing it out, but I'm going to give it and make it interesting. But, uh, how did
that happen. I was elected to Delta Kappa Gamma in 19,1 think it was 1955. Now, I
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junior colleges 130
belonged for that many years. And, uh, I was very active in my own chapter. And then I
was president of the chapter. And then I was se, uh, asked to be, uh, oh I had it down on
the slip. Uh, as a state, uh, what did I call it? Did I give you that slip with, that had that on
it? I think I did, it...
[see photo copy 5 for a copy of a quote by Margaret that was included in a AKT booklet]
L. L. : I don't think I brought it with me.
M. C. : Oh, well, anyway, it, but it's to, uh, uh, it's to screen the, uh,I want to use the word
political, but it's not political, everything that goes on in Olympia, and I was that chairman
for the, for the state for 2 years. And then, after that, or while I was on that, I was asked if
I would serve on the research committee through my, the influence of, uh, being on that
state committee. And, I did. And there were about, I don't know how many, were there 6
on there, I think so, no there were more than that I guess 8. And that was very, uh, all
those people were top people. They were all prime leaders in the community. And you
had to be a prime leader actually or you wouldn't know what it was all about. And we met
often on that committee. Now there was one woman from Spokane, and, uh, one from
Chehallis, and, uh, one from Tacoma, and myself from Seattle, two of us from Seattle. One
of them was a high school principal, and now I think she has Alzheimer's. She lives out at
the other Ida Culver House. And she was a brain. But, that's the way it goes. And it was,
that was the most interesting 5 years I ever spent because you had to do the manual work.
And we had workshops that took us all day, over a weekend, or maybe 2 days over a
weekend 'cause, you see, being spread around the state meant just getting together was a
chore. Although everybody drove. Let's see, they're all, all gone now, I think, accept for
myself and this principal. The, uh, woman that was the chairman of the committee from
Spokane, uh, she died of cancer before we had the final draft. So, 5 years is a long time to
study something in depth. But it was interesting.
L. L. : Did you enjoy it?
118 M. C. : I enjoyed it because I enjoy work. You know, I enjoy being active and doing things. And,
of course, it takes a great deal of stress away from you because you're interested in doing
something that's helping somebody else, at least you hope it is. And then after we had the
final preparation over with, that meant that we had to backtrack and have, he had 5
meetings, central meetings, around the state of Washington to let each district know what
the outcome was. And that was telling them what we had learned in Olympia by having a,
a meeting with Reverend, or with Doctor, or not doctor, Governor Rossollini.
And then, since then, they have had all kinds of junior colleges.
L. L. : So that was what the project was for?
education 138 M. C. : But are, there are a lot of little things that I haven't told you about when it comes to
leadership, and I have, and I never talked to him about anything else. But there was, uh,
uh, an international, uh, men's group, that were giving, uh, scholarships every year, and I
was asked to be, uh, a wit, a judge for these scholarship, uh, lectures, that the senior, high
school seniors, were doing, and I worked on that f, for a number of years. In fact, they still
would like me to work on it, uh, I had to stop that. When you can't see, you're at a
disadvantage, and I was, uh, getting too old to do it anyhow, they didn't think so.
public speaking 146 Now, the only reas, now, that is, that comes back to another thing. If you learn to be
able to speak rather fluently on your own, you present yourself as someone probably, uh,
and often, uh, more capably than you would otherwise. Because I have, I have notice that,
and if you are thinking of your audience more than you are of yourself as presenting it,
you're better off. Now, that's advice to the you, youth. Because, th, each time I have
served with these men in this local meeting, now they have the constituents, the people that
are gone to serve, uh, you don't meet them ahead of time. Uh, they just present the one by
one. And, I have never failed to stand up as a judge afterward and usually, with 3 judges, 2
men and a woman, sometimes 2 women and 1 man, I'm the only one that stands up to
thank all of the young people who have took part in it and also thank the men's
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organization that, that are giving this award. And if you can present something like that,
you make yourself so well-known that they want you again. Now, I, I don't do that
because I want to be in it again. I do it because I want to impress these young people, how
important it is that they take part in these debates, on in these talks. And that's very
important.
L. L. : What about some of the other project's that you've done recently?
children/grandchildren
public speaking 175 M. C. : Oh, that's the trouble. I don't, one of them was this big, in October, this last October,
when my son was selected as the Civic Volunteer of the year, and, at the Weston Hotel,
they held the big bash for him. There were 650 people there for lunch at $35 a plate, a
benefit for the YMCA downtown. And it was interesting, I thought, I know I told you a
little about that. But that was, to me it was interesting. Now, I did not want, they asked
me to speak be, only because I was his mother, and I knew that. The didn't ask because I
had anything to say. But I said, "No." And I told my granddaughter, they had asked my
granddaughter to ask me, and I said, "No, Linda, I'm through, no more." And she said,
"Yes, grandma, but they'd li, like to have you just say some, something about your son."
And I said, "No," I said, "You go back and tell them that this old lady at 92 is through."
And so she went back and told 'em, the committee, because this is business people
downtown. And, then my grandson, Dune, the oldest grandson who I told you was 40 or
more, he called up one day and said, "How 'bout me coming over and having lunch with
you today?" I said, "That's fine." I knew something was up because he never comes and
has much with me. So, right away, when he came in, I said, 'What's up now?" "Oh," he
says, "I just want to talk to you for a while." And he said, "You know, they asked me to
take your place at this meeting." And, uh, I said, "That's good." And he said, "Well, I'm
saving the last 2 or 3 minutes for you," of the time that was allotted to him. And I said,
"Oh, no." "Oh," he said, "Yes, you can do this, not for them, do it for me." And, finally, I
relented and said that I would, but I would not get up on the stage because they had all
these brass-the mayor was there and all the representatives. And I said, "Nu, nothing
doing." "Well," he said, "I'll fix it so you can sit down, you know, among the common
people." And, so he did. But when it came time for me to speak, the gal that had the
roving microphone brought it up to me, and I was supposed to start speaking, and the mike
went dead, the battery was out. "Ahh," the girl says, "Ahli, what'll I do now, it won't
work?" I said, "Don't' bother about it, I'll get up and talk." And, I said, "that'll be
enough." And I got up and spoke, and I faced this, well it was the, the ball room is where
they had the table set. And I sp, and I gave my little speech, and I sat down. Uh, I went
home with someone that had a car phone, my family, and they said, "Grandma, you stole
the show." So, this grandma's through.
interview 234 And then along comes you. And then came this friend that I had the, a committee
meet here the other night. And now, the, I told you what they're gonna discuss at this
meeting on Saturday. Uh, uh, a speaker on, uh, what do you call medicine now that, oh,
alternative medicine, and she's speaking on it. Now, she even knows or she herself has
written a book on it. And it's a going to be interesting. It better be if I have to sit an hour
and listen to somebody. But it's interesting.
work/health 243 L. L. : What about the work that you did at the U-Dub hospital, the research that you...?
M. C. : What hospital?
L. L. : The University Hospital?
service 245 M. C. : Oh, oh goodness me, getting into more of that. [Libby and Margaret laugh]. About 5 years
ago, uh, the lady in charge of activities of that sort here, uh, promised the University
hospital that she would find, uh, I think it was 6 at that time, uh, people that would
volunteer to be guinea pigs for these students that were taking advanced training, uh,
wanting to be, uh, physician's assistants. And, uh, so she asked me if I would, and I said,
"Yes." At that time, I was much younger. This was 6 or 7 years ago [laugh]. And, then I
did it the first year, and then I did it the second, then I did it the third. Well, the fourth
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year, I took that year off. And I said no, that I had done enough. Well, then came the fifth
year, and, and, uh, the gal that was trying to get people to do it had a terrible time because
nobody wants to tie themselves up for 6 weeks in this kind of training 'cause it is a little
strenuous. And so she same in and said, "Margaret, I'm just up against it." You know
what happened, I, I finally gave in because it would help Penny; she wouldn't have to look
any further if she could get me for a substitute. And so I went back into it. Well, this year,
uh, something different happened. Now, the, uh, sometimes they bring a stretcher in, you
see, and you uh, unclothe yourself and, uh, uh, it's, it's, it's really, uh, it's at least an hour
for each time they come, and they come for 6 weeks. And, uh, it's very interesting because
they tell you what they're going to do before they do it. Well, they'll, they might say
they're going to examine your head this day, and the, then they're going to examine your
lungs, and they tell you how and why they go about it. And it's, to me it's very interesting,
I really enjoy it except that I, I'm, you know, I'm tied down to those days, and I keep to it.
And I'm always ready when they come. But this year, I, 6 years ago, I had an implant in
this eye, and, uh,
289 L. L. : your right eye
M. C. : ...the next time, uh, 6 years later, I had this eye done [left eye], uh, an implant in this eye.
And, uh, this year the girl that was coming to me, I've had 1 man and 4 girls, but I prefer
the girls. Uh, I think I feel a little better, and maybe he does too. But, uh, this year they
were very much interested in the difference between the 2 eyes, and the girl said, "Would
you mind if I ca, called in the supervisor?" 'cause there's always a supervisor along with
the students, and uh, she called in the supervisor. And then the supervisor said, "Would
you mind if I called in the team?" And of course then there were 6 people in white coats
coming into your room. [laugh] It was really fanny. But, and I, I, I jokingly told anybody
that, that saw them all coming in, I said, "Don't, don't worry, they haven't taken me out
yet." [laugh] But it, it was interesting. But the main thing was that this one you see...
L. L. : [left one]
M. C. : ...was done later and by a, a new method, and they couldn't see that I had any implant in
this eye, They thought I got cheated. Ah, that's interesting.
L. L. : What were the implants for?
M.C. : When was it...?
glaucoma 314
L. L. : What were they for?
M. C. : Oh, I have glaucoma. And I have a disintegration of the retina. And either one leads to
blindness. When you have both, you're sure you have the right path. [laugh].
L. L. : What other kind of, urn, have you had any other kind of medical problems in the last 10 or
15 years?
cancer 320 M. C. : Oh dear, I've had many, I've, I really have been a healthy person until I reached 80,I
guess, maybe then, I, I haven't had a great deal, but what I've had has been a little severe.
I had cancer, I told you that. Didn't I. Oh, I told you I didn't want to talk about myself
and that's all I've done for, since I've known you. [laugh]. You asked for it. I had cancer
in '88 and I wouldn't have know I had cancer had it not been that I had, uh, uh, there was
something else, colon difficulty, and, uh, they found out that I had colon cancer and that I
also had cancer in the, in 2 tubes. So, they removed the tubes...
fallopian tubes 345 L. L. : Were they fallopian tubes?
M. C. : ...and also 18 inches, that's about 18 inches, 18 inches of the colon. And I'm still here.
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surgery/
broken leg
L. L. : What tubes were they?
M. C. : I beg your pardon?
L. L. : What tubes?
M. C. : I don't, aren't there only tubes, 2 tubes in your body.
L. L. : the fallopian tubes?
M. C. : Oh, fallopian, I imagine. That's what I thought anyway, maybe I, they, maybe I took that
for granted. I don't know, it didn't matter. But I was still here.
350 L. L. : What about your hip, you said you broke that, or your leg, or... [Margaret also walks with
a limp & uses a walker; she earlier told me this was from her falling accident.]
M. C. : Oh, my leg. Well, I just missed a step and fell. And I fell this way. I reached for a railing
that was there, but I wasn't in time. And I went over like this, and I, I broke the femur
bone from the knee to the hip. Now the hospital called it a "hip" injury, but it wasn't a hip,
didn't bother my hip at all, but that's what they called it. When I asked the doctor about it,
he said that's the easiest thing they could think of. But I broke the, this in, the x-rays
showed, it you'd taken a ruler of tape measure, 4 equal parts.
L. L. : So you broke it in 3 different places?
M. C. : For different places.
L. L. : Four different places.
M. C. : And, they put it together with screws, and I was conscious, but didn't feel any pain. And
the doctor sat right on the stretch, in the operating room right next to me, and I, I could
see the [laugh] pail in which he was gathering the blood. Does that make you hinch, hinch?
[laugh]. And I, I, I was aware of the fact that at times he was sawing, but there wasn't any
pain. And, and the gentleman giving me the pain was the son, a doctor, of one of the ladies
that lived here whose family I know way back in Black Diamond years ago.
friends 386 L. L. : What about urn, your friendship with Helen. How's that progressed over the years?
M. C. : Well, she called me just before you came, and really it was the funniest conversation. We,
our lives have been very similar. And we have been together so much of the time that we
share everything. I hope you have a friend like that, or that you accumulate or find one
because there's nothmg in life that is any, any dearer, that's no good word, not a good
word. But she called me today to say that she had gone to, uh, she's very active in St.
Marks' Cathedral. Our lives have been very similar the whole way through. Now she has a
granddaughter, who is a granddaughter of one of Seattle's well-known surgeons. He's
dye, he has died though in the meantime.
schizophrenia 410But her granddaughter is schizophrenic.
L. L. : Helen's granddaughter?
M. C. :Is that [the tape recorder]on, has that been on the whole time?
L. L. : Yeah, it's been on for this part.
M. C. : Well, anyway, and so this granddaughter is her granddaughter, and she's schizophrenic.
And she lives in a group home not able to function. But she is a graduate of the University
of Washington. And she didn't become this way until she was out of the University about
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3 or 4 years. Now she had her, her fifth year and could have taught had she not had this
debilitating, urn, illness, and I don't know, I don't know too much about it. But it's hard,
harder on the grandmother, I think, that on anyone else in the family because the girl, uh,
she must be about 30, and she comes to her grandmother's more often than she wants to
go to, uh, any of the others. And I can understand that; she has peace and comfort,
tranquillity, et... And Helen's a good one to have. But you see, she's older, and now
that's more difficult for people like us to have, uh, a situation like that. It's very similar to
my Marilyn, you see, so.
And, but, tonight, today she was laughing about, uh, a situation that took place only
today because at St. Mark's today, they were having, uh, uh, the yearly ceremony they
have for those that are, uh, in the Collumbarium, which St. Mark's has.
L. L. : What's the Collumbarium?
M. C. : For the deceased? And, uh, so and her granddaughter, a cousin of the girl that has
schizophrenia, uh, was going to take her to this service, and she mentioned, you know, a
month ago. But she didn't come along today. And Helen said, "I didn't know what Ruthie
might be doing. So," she said," I didn't want to bother her." So she went over to the
church without her. And then, but she waited thinking that Ruthie would come and, and,
and take her. And, while she was there, Helen said, well she waited when, when it was
over with thinking Ruthie would come and take her back home. But she didn't come and
didn't come, so Helen mentioned it to the girl in the office at St. Marks Cathedral. And,
uh, this girl says, "Why, Helen, Ruthie's in Hawaii." And she had gone to Hawaii and not
told her grandmother. She'd gone, she evidently forgot it. And Helen said, "Was I
shocked?"
end Tape 7. side B
TapeS
side A
fr(Aids 004 M. C. : [Margaret is still talking about Helen] [Helen is the]same age as I, 3 weeks. Her, her
birthday was July the third and mine is July the 29th. And she used to tell me, "Now I'll be
the boss because I'm older than you are." Didn't mean a thing [Margaret laughs]. And it
still doesn't. But we laugh about our similar situations. And it is interesting.
L. L. : Urn, I was wondering about the picture on the wall.
art^rth 009 M. C. : The picture on the wall was painted by Anna B, Stone. She was the doctor's wife that
brought me into this world. Her husband, Dr. Stone, brought me into the world, that's a
better way of putting it. And they were friends of my family when he was in Black
Diamond as a doctor for the Pacific Coast Coal Company. But she wa, had graduated
from an Eastern art school, and she was quite an artist because she sold all kinds of these
through, uh, galleries.
L. L. : Did your family keep in contact with their family?
M. C. : I beg your pardon?
L. L. : Did your family keep in contact with her family?
M. C. : Oh yes, for years, but she's been dead for years. Now he came, he came to Seattle from
Black Diamond, and he, with his brother-in-law, his wife's brother, Dr. Kidd, they were
both M.D.'s started St. Luke's hospital. And St. Luke's Hospital was the original hospital
on the ground where Group Health is now on 16th. Ave. E.
L. L. : Goes back a long ways.
82